Comments on: Wanting to Believe

By: Keith

Keith — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 20:00:15 +0000

“…not be held accountable for their lack of understanding.” Would it kinder (is that a word) for us to NOT tell people about Christ? As long as they have no understanding, following this line of thinking, they would not be accountable and therefore would not be condemned to hell. BUT, the minute we inform them, they’re toast (so to speak). (FOOTNOTE: I do think God somehow handles those, as you put it, that are not able to believe because of mental challenges, etc. David expressed absolute confidence that he would be reunited with his infant son–the product of his adultery with Bathsheba.)

“there’s nothing we can do…its in God’s hands” True. He simply uses us –gives us the privilege of being part of the process. If God wanted to save everybody, He’d just do it. Then we wouldn’t need preachers, missionaries, Sunday School teachers, etc. “All dogs go to heaven.”

“these same people spend countless hours and resources on trying to bring others close to God.” That’s because none of us have the mind of God. Jesus said to go out and make disciples. We obey. God sorts it out. It’s not my job to try and figure out who is or who will.

By: darren

darren — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 11:18:09 +0000

“not be held accountable for their lack of understanding.” is the train of thought I’ve heard most of my life and given by most people regarding people with cognitive (mental) challenges, for both kids and adults. The other and more harsh extreme, in my opinion, is those who claim “God doesn’t make exceptions.”. I guess my problem with both of those thoughts, is that neither one requires any work or effort. People are basically saying “there’s nothing we can do…its in God’s hands”, yet these same people spend countless hours and resources on trying to bring others close to God. I think too often, though not always on perhaps, we judge not who is saved, but who want to be saved.

By: mattsummers

mattsummers — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 05:24:40 +0000

Darren: I “think” that the Bible teaches that those who are “not able” to understand God will not be held accountable for their lack of understanding. At least that’s what I do with that phrase in Romans 4 that says, “Where the is no law there is no transgression.” I think…, but my jury is still out on that one. I am convinced of this: some of the kids you work with fit into this group and I appreciate the fact that you do what you do.

By: darren

darren — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 03:07:39 +0000

I agree that there is plenty of information showing God exists, in my opinion. I believe many choose not to believe in God, just as many people choose to believe in Him. However, I contend that for numerous and various reasons there are plenty of people out there that are NOT ABLE to understand God enough to believe or disbelief Him. Now the number of these people pales in comparison to the number of those who choose to believe and those who choose not to believe. I believe the Church as a whole (and non-believers as well) focus almost entirely on those choosing to believe, those choosing not to believe, but neglect those that can not believe and fail to take on the challenges of reaching those people.

By: mattsummers

mattsummers — Sat, 18 Apr 2009 01:22:40 +0000

A reader, who read some of the comments on this blogpost, made the observation that I sound very arrogant and snotty. I’m not going to post the comment. However, I sincerely apologize for being arrogant and snotty. However, I love the debate (my dad always said I would make a good lawyer) and often participate in heated ones that are never intended to be personal and/or hurtful. In the future, I will be more gracious–and if you catch me not being that way–you can call me on it. (But I probably won’t post the call).

By: mattsummers

mattsummers — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 18:05:45 +0000

At least that’s what I “want” to believe

By: mattsummers

mattsummers — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:56:31 +0000

You ultimately choose to believe what you want to believe.

Keith, you want to believe in John Calvin and so you look for biblical support to believe in John Calvin. I want to believe that man has the ability to choose or reject God, so I look for biblical support to believe that man has the ability to choose or reject God–and scripture bears out this truth. The Bible tells us to “choose” who we will serve–so I believe that we can choose. I believe the Bible. The Bible also tells us that we can fall away. I believe the Bible. I don’t look for theological loop-holes and strawmen to try to explain away what the BIble clearly teaches.

BTW: I’m assuming that if God “sees” it in the future it’s because He has “foreknowledge” that allows Him to see what’s going to happen in the future. Whom does God “choose” for specific purposes, but those that He “sees” will choose Him. Why do I believe this? Because I believe the Bible. I don’t care how Calvin & Zwingly defined it all, and neither did the early church leaders. They were apparently comfortable with the tension between “foreknowedge” and Free Will because they taught both.

By: Keith

Keith — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:18:00 +0000

So why doesn’t God give some people a little more information, if enough won’t get it? I assume He knows which ones of us need a bit more help than the others.

Are you saying there are some people that just NEVER WILL get it? And if so, why does God allow them to be born? It would seem in that case, God is allowing someone to be destined to hell from the beginning, with really no chase of salvation since their hard heart prevents them from “wanting” to believe…and God seeing and knowing everything would have absolute foreknowledge of their never choosing. I’m assuming that if God “sees” it in the future, it will happen exactly as He sees it.

By: mattsummers

mattsummers — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 12:50:36 +0000

But they have “enough” information available to be able to choose. That’s the point of the first serveral chapters of Romans. The Jews had enough information but didn’t get it. The Greeks & Romans had enough information but didn’t get it. And they didn’t get it because their hearts were hard–in other words–they didn’t “want” to get it.

By: darren

darren — Fri, 17 Apr 2009 04:19:06 +0000

Actually many people don’t have all the information. Furthermore, many people that have the information or access to it, can’t comprehend it at a level that makes faith/belief possible.